Color Differences between coats (single stage)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:22 pm
Thanks! Makes sense.

Holy moly this sure is complicated...

When I painted my first few panels, I got atrocious orange peel. Pressure too low, didn't use any of the optional reducer, and I tried putting really light coats on like people seem to do with base coat. It was a real disaster.

I then went through some experiments, but perhaps changed too many variables at once out of impatience. I reduced the paint, cranked the pressure up, and put the paint down thicker. I ratcheted up each of these variables with every test, but arguably I should have tested one variable at a time.

But I definitely found that this super sticky relatively thick paint seems to level out much better when I put down heavy coats. I.e., if I didn't get full coverage on my first coat, the orange peel was a disaster.

But I totally see that it could be that I really only needed to crank the pressure and thin the paint, but didn't need to lay down heavy coats.

Ugh, I dunno. I think I've learned that trying to paint your own car is a false economy. I've been calling around some body shops, and found one with a good reputation that will paint all panels for me for around $3k if I bring them in correctly sanded, and require no disassembly/reassembly. Just hang, mask, clean, paint, and hand it all back to me.

It seems that with the economy slowing down (ish?), the paint shops actually have time in their schedules for me (this was not the case a year ago). I'm leaning towards throwing in the towel and outsourcing at this point. I don't think my soul can handle another failure of this scale. So many hundreds of hours down the tubes. I've learned a ton, but probably the biggest thing i've learned is that painting a car is REALLY HARD for an unskilled but dedicated/hardworking newbie. Maybe this all would've been different if I had just gone with a BC/CC job instead of single stage. I was warned that single stage is hard for newbies, but I really wanted the older school look of single stage.

BTW, I don't think I mentioned it, but this is for a 1976 Landcruiser FJ40. Below is a pic after my first painting attempt on only the tub, fenders and front bib. I later had to sand it back and try again after running into other issues. Man that was a kick in the you know what. Looking at this picture is both depressing (that I ended up sanding all of this back) and encouraging (it's going to look so good when I finally get out of this painting trap!).

IMG_20200124_183350.jpg



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:11 pm
You've gained a lot of experience with this,dont give up.FJ looks awesome.In the future someone is gonna say nice paint,and youll be able to say thanks, I did it myself.



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:54 pm
That's a paint job to be proud of.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:16 am
pierps wrote:I think I've learned that trying to paint your own car is a false economy.


For a lot of people that's true, but for those for whom it's not about economy, but satisfaction, the rewards do come at the end.

pierps wrote:the biggest thing i've learned is that painting a car is REALLY HARD for an unskilled but dedicated/hardworking newbie.


A spray painting apprenticeship lasts for 4 years, full time. Most apprentices don't get to do their first full respray until their third year and I know shops where they have to do another two years before they're allowed to do a complete. I've employed plenty of 4th year apprentices who were unable to even do a single panel without some problem and painters who've had 5 years or more out of their apprenticeship who still weren't capable enough.

To achieve what you have, on a single job, even with some reworks, shows a level of commitment that I would have welcomed in most of the employees I've had.

Keep going. You're learning and using that knowledge to improve your skills which I think is admirable.
Chris



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:34 am
NFT5 wrote:For a lot of people that's true, but for those for whom it's not about economy, but satisfaction, the rewards do come at the end.


For sure! My main hobby is furniture-making. Between all of the machines and tools I've purchased and the money I've spent on my shop, there's absolutely no way I'll ever break even in my lifetime (not about economy). It's about the enjoyment of the process itself, not the financials. And while the satisfaction of the completed project is part of my motivation, it's secondary to the enjoyment of the designing and building processes.

This project is more nuanced for me. I'm doing a frame-off restoration on the land cruiser (6 years and counting at this point). I think when I'm done, there will be phases of the project I look back on with fondness (disassembly, rust repairs, tinkering and restoring small parts, assembly, tuning and optimizing) and some that trigger PTSD. The paint process is the PTSD part. haha. Even body work and block sanding will go in the "fondness" category. I will feel immense satisfaction and pride when I'm done with this project even if I'm not the person to put the final drops of paint on the exterior. I'll know how hard I tried on the paint, the mental battles I overcame to keep trying, and I'll have all of the other aspects of the project that I did myself... At some point when a hobby becomes a significant source of stress and frustration, one has to recognize that it's actually no longer a hobby at all.

Above all, I want this thing to turn out amazing. I've had that mindset from the start of the project. I've come to realize despite my determination, it's not going to turn out amazing if I apply the paint myself. I'm admitting defeat on one aspect of this project, but on the whole, I can claim responsibility for 95% of the work. I'm good with that! Plus, my wife is getting pretty impatient and I don't blame her. I've spent thousands of hours away from her on the weekends doing this and at some point it becomes unhealthy. She's supporting of paying a shop to do the paint.

NFT5 wrote:A spray painting apprenticeship lasts for 4 years, full time. Most apprentices don't get to do their first full respray until their third year and I know shops where they have to do another two years before they're allowed to do a complete. I've employed plenty of 4th year apprentices who were unable to even do a single panel without some problem and painters who've had 5 years or more out of their apprenticeship who still weren't capable enough.

To achieve what you have, on a single job, even with some reworks, shows a level of commitment that I would have welcomed in most of the employees I've had.

Keep going. You're learning and using that knowledge to improve your skills which I think is admirable.


Thanks a lot of the kind words! After all of this work, I can now truly appreciate the skill this trade requires... which in all honesty only motivates me further to hand the paint work off to a pro. :)



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:08 pm
I know I've decided to throw in the towel, but in case it's of interest to anybody who comes across this thread in the future.

I've now spoken with a number of paint shops in my area, and about half of them have said that wet sanding single stage is a risky proposition (even with solid colors)... they generally only do it if they need to take out a dust nib, but will only do it in that specific spot. All of the shops that told me this indicated in one way or another that you really can't be sure that the color is evenly distributed between coats and even within the same coat. So sanding it is not worth the risk.

I don't know enough to be able to decide whether this makes sense. But all of the shops I've spoken with have recommended bccc jobs because sanding clear is much less risky.

If I could turn back time, I would've just done base/clear. live and learn.

Thanks again to everyone who comforted me throught his mourning process. :) :bighug:
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