Damaged van back from paint shop

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



Settled In
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:35 am

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:59 pm
Doright wrote:Well I have never seen a Panel so damaged by mechanical sanding before ? How they managed to damage your panels so bad by sanding is beyond me. I have never seen a panel so damaged by regular old mechanical sanding. To me it sure looks like the panel has been blasted and damaged by blasting plain and simple. And in my own defense if you were not there when it was done how do you know what they did except for what they are telling you!????

You said steel blasting material was used for the material used I read that, In my own defense To me this is an UNKNOWN material here in the States I am not aware of any or familiar with any type of steel material available that is used for auto-body blasting besides Black Beauty witch is actually Coal Slag.
Just because I have never seen it or heard of it before does not mean it does not exist! It just simply means It is unfamiliar to me.

I am also not Familiar with the term Thermal spraying???? Please elaborate?
Thermal means HEAT the only process which uses heat in the process of Painting that I am aware of is Powder coating.
Now You can Bake some automotive coatings under special lights I have these myself but they are used more for speeding up the drying process not for adding any special hardness or better durability to the coatings.

I am not all knowing by any means and I don't claim to be nor do I claim to be any sort of Restoration expert or Auto body repair man I fix repair restore Aircraft Cars bikes boats quads for my My Employer self friends family and occasionally a customer take my advise accordingly as I am not an Automotive restoration expert.

As far as Soda Blasting goes you are correct it does NOT leave a mechanical tooth for Painting. Soda is very Genital to what ever it is being used on you can even use it over chrome and Glass with out fear of damaging either supposedly so I have read.

Here again I have never used Soda myself But I am planning to start using it for some of my projects in the future because it is so Genital.
In my research of using Soda on any thing it needs to cleaned thoroughly after it is use to neutralize the residual coating of soda left behind on the surface of the material its used on and then it must be Lightly sanded in most cases, I personally would choose 80 grit on a DA sander as I feel it would be ideal to leave required tooth for Primmer or Epoxy.

Soda gets a bad Rap for leaving a residual Coating that interferes with subsequent top coats that must be thoroughly neutralized before top coating by washing it in soap water and Vinegar most people fear doing this for the fear of flash rusting, But if you know what your doing cleaning metal this is easily dealt with.


At any rate I wish you the best of luck getting your Van repaired and back on track
:shock: Yikes! I know I'm still a newb but I'm fairly certain that I don't want something like THAT sprayed all over my body!



Top Contributor
Posts: 6217
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:38 am
WOW!!!!!!! :flatten:
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



* Banned *
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:33 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:00 pm
I do this all day, everyday. Try searching other professional sites and evaluate their credentials. Those not exposed to the industry on a daily basis often offer poor advice. This is proven by most jobs I have to repair done by hack shops or entry level hobby people, or those that never obtain professional, correct advice.

Heat from blasting has nothing to do with panel warping. Heat warping is a myth perpetuated by the uneducated.



Settled In
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 7:35 am

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:40 pm
ScottB wrote:I do this all day, everyday. Try searching other professional sites and evaluate their credentials. Those not exposed to the industry on a daily basis often offer poor advice. This is proven by most jobs I have to repair done by hack shops or entry level hobby people, or those that never obtain professional, correct advice.

Heat from blasting has nothing to do with panel warping. Heat warping is a myth perpetuated by the uneducated.
It would be very helpful to us not in the industry if, in addition to telling us what is false, you could also tell us what is true. For instance, how DOES blasting warp panels if not from heat, and what does one look for in order to avoid warping panels? Is it the type of media, the coarseness of the media, the pressure or flow volume of the air or water carrying the media, something else? And how does one best evaluate a potential blaster to determine if they know what they are doing or will ruin our project? Remember, this is THE PLACE to educate us on things like this, and we appreciate the advice. :worthy:



Top Contributor
Posts: 6217
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:41 pm
You wont get your answers for your questions from Scott he only comes on here to ridicule others and put Hobbyist down as if they know nothing and all the work they do is Hack.

Truth is he has no idea who's right or wrong he only knows how he was trained.
God forbid he actually do any research on a Particular subject which he calls BS on.
God forbid there may be an alternative way to do something or better way to do something or God forbid one that gets the job done just as good and cheaper.

Me personally I am sick of his condescending attitude
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



Settled In
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:59 pm
It's a shame. It would really be helpful to learn from this misfortune and help prevent it from happening again. Love reading and learning from the site.



Fully Engaged
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:22 am
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:09 am
Well said Dennis :clap:

User avatar

Top Contributor
Posts: 1745
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:53 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:49 am
ScottB wrote:I do this all day, everyday. Try searching other professional sites and evaluate their credentials. Those not exposed to the industry on a daily basis often offer poor advice. This is proven by most jobs I have to repair done by hack shops or entry level hobby people, or those that never obtain professional, correct advice.

Heat from blasting has nothing to do with panel warping. Heat warping is a myth perpetuated by the uneducated.



Scott is correct...
warping is caused by a "peaning effect" the sand hammering dents into the sheet metal.
thats the best to my knowledge... i would say they stayed on those areas to long.
Experienced Trained Certified

SATA Spray Equipment Germany
Axalta ChromaBase Elite Standox Imron 5000 6000
PPG Delfeet Deltron Global Matthews
Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 Genesis
Valspar DeBeer LIC
Akzo Nobel Sikkens Lesonal



Top Contributor
Posts: 6217
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:23 pm
jammer wrote:It's a shame. It would really be helpful to learn from this misfortune and help prevent it from happening again. Love reading and learning from the site.


norunz wrote:Well said Dennis :clap:


When I give advice on how to repair something I have years of Training & experience behind that suggestion Plus years of continuing education & training and research on the subjects I choose to talk about. Not All mechanics or technicians are the same not all have the same training or experience or interests and NONE including myself are 100% correct all the time!

When an Aircraft gets dented or a hole punched in its sheet metal and it happens all the time a Federally Certified A&P mechanic has to fix it and that Includes Painting! No one else can fix it, You must be a certified A&P mechanic to fix and certify the silly thing, from a Cessna 150 to a Boeing 787 that flys at over 500 mph!
I have been trained to Straiten dents in Aluminum sheet metal & certify the repair or cut out the damage and replace it when necessary, Then Paint it!
I am a federally certified to do anything on an Aircraft including Painting, Blasting welding etc! I have been Trained and certified BY the United states government FAA to Abrasive blast Aircraft parts! and overhaul ANY engine OR Gear box flight control Electrical item Electronics Plumbing pneumatic Hydraulic even Welding Ya I am certified for that Too! or anything else you can think of putting in an Aircraft! or doing to an Aircraft.

Anything that is done to a Car, Boat, Train, Bus, or even your house in many instances was first developed for the Space industry OR Aircraft industry long ago! Technology is a Trickle down. If they are doing it to a car they did it first on a Space vehicle or an Aircraft FIRST! and because of that an A&P mechanic HAS TO BE MADE AWARE OF THAT TECHNOLOGY HOW AND WHY ITS USED AND HOW TO REPAIR IT PROPERLY.
I know what the heck I am talking about when I decide to open my mouth or type on this key board and talk about a subject publicly unless I state other wise!

I get very upset and take great displeasure when I am called a Home hobbyist HACK
By some one with just a certificate of attendance or achievement from a few hour long ICAR certification class or some other meaningless worthless industry certification from an industry that doesn't have Government certifications or regulations! If they even have any certifications?

Some Guy's think that they know every thing because they have worked in an industry for so long or done the work for so long that they think they know it all and have done it all for so long that they are a God in the shop and all must Bow to them because they know it all, they've done it all. (I have a few words to say to that privately none of them nice)

All industries and technology's are constantly changing new things are always being developed as are ways of doing things tooling, materials, etc. To be Blind to new technology's and procedures is Ignorant! as is not listening to anthers opinions or ideas.

Sometimes everyone including myself needs to shut up and listen to the New idea or New way because even the newest kid fresh out of school or the new kid in the shop or even the Newest Newbie on this Forum may know something New that you don't! because ALL of us have something to contribute! even if its just a question! Just because you may not agree with it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do some research on the subject before opening your mouth and putting him or her down because your gonna look the Fool when your proven wrong even if you don't get called out on it.

Opinions are like certain orifices on the humane body, Every one has one some smell worse than others including my own.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



Top Contributor
Posts: 6217
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 pm
PainterDave wrote:
ScottB wrote:I do this all day, everyday. Try searching other professional sites and evaluate their credentials. Those not exposed to the industry on a daily basis often offer poor advice. This is proven by most jobs I have to repair done by hack shops or entry level hobby people, or those that never obtain professional, correct advice.

Heat from blasting has nothing to do with panel warping. Heat warping is a myth perpetuated by the uneducated.



Scott is correct...
warping is caused by a "peaning effect" the sand hammering dents into the sheet metal.
thats the best to my knowledge... i would say they stayed on those areas to long.


Scott did not say that I did!!!! 2nd post first page
"roof has been blasted from the out side resulting in millions of dimples shrinking the panel material"

Scott said Heat had nothing to do with the damage and while he is correct about that statement he also didn't explain how it was damaged or why or how to fix it. But he did once again attack the Home hobbyist once again that he has done repeatedly since he started posting.

For some that don't believe my explanation to this effect Take a large panel and Blast the center of it too long and just stay in one spot way to long and you will see a dent to start to form as the metal starts sinking into the panel creating a large dent or bowl shape in the panel.

What is taking place is the metal on the surface is being peaned millions of times over and over by the material used to blast with gathering up the surface panel material shrinking the surface of material the back side which is left untouched is longer than the peaned surface it has no where to go but to bend outward towards the long side or un blasted side of the panel material.

How to repair the damage?
The Blasted side surface must be stretched back out to its original form this cant be done easily as the damage is only on the one side of the panel.
Stretching metal is most easily performed by Plannishing with a hammer and dolly, Repeatedly hitting the panel Hammer on Dolly stretches BOTH sides of the panel simultaneously. for this reason most damage created by blasting cannot be repaired easily and is best to just replace the panel in most cases.

There is a way to repair the damage by stretching the panel on just the one side its done with very specialized Machine with very special stretching dies the machine is very large and they are very expensive too purchase and are very rare to see.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
PreviousNext

Return to Welding & Metal Fab

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests