Rear Wheel Arch/Panel Rust Repair - Method to Use?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:14 pm
hey this is my first post here. i'm not a professional by any means, just a budget minded diy'er that would rather learn and do something myself rather than pay someone to do it. I'm not a complete noob to autobody. i've done prep work, assisted with painting cars with my buddy, and painted 2 motorcycles myself.

Today's post is to get some guidance and advice and find the best method for a diy'er to continue work on my Integra restoration project. here is a little background information. i've owned this car for 10 years at least, the last 15 months it has been off the road and i am completely redoing the vehicle, mechanically, body repairs, interior, etc... the focus for this year for my body repairs is the rear wheel arches. i've repainted this car more times than it should have been with a buddy of mine, so when it comes time to do the actual paint work its going to have to be taken down to metal i think.

anyways, my questions for the moment relates to the repairs at the rear of the car. I'm gearing up to tackle my rear wheel arches on my teg and i have some donor panels to use for the replacement. the wheel arch lip is pretty trashed on both sides down by the rear seat. they seem to still be intact the rest of the way around...and when i say intact, i mean not rotted through. they are still rusty. my goal is to only replace what i absolutely have to.

here is a pic of the bad side where i did some exploratory grinding. the rust doesnt seem to be present anywhere else on the outer panel. hopefully the inner is the same.
Image


i circled some areas that i'm not sure about with the wheel arch area, but first here was my original plan after doing some initial research.

only cut out what i absolutely need to, repair the inner panel as needed, and then 3m panel bond adhesive in the replacement (using a flange tool to make the panels sit correctly). i already have the gun and the adhesive kit from 3M to use for another small repair. i do have welder, but it is a flux welder. i do not have access to a mig welder and i really do not intend on buying one for this project. i read that the flux is way to hot to weld this thin of a panel so that lead me to the adhesive. also with the welder i was worried about panel warping with the heat.

after taking a closer look at the wheel arch area, i think i may not have a choice but to use my flux welder on a few parts because i do not see how i can make the adhesive and flanging work. i have read that with the flux welder on the min. setting and a slower speed with decent wire it wont blow through, but it wont be pretty either. Here is the bad side of the car and my idea.
Image


the plan now is (maybe?) cut the outer panel similar to the outline i have. its free hand in photoshop so its not pretty... then make any repairs needed to the inner panel. flange and adhesive the lip of the arch and where it would connect to the main body panel of the car above the wheel, and then weld where the right side of the arch meets the door jam area. input on this? also, i'm not real sure where is best to make the cut on the panel on the right side of that wheel arch.

here is a pic of just the doorjam area of the wheel arch.
Image


i'm a little lost on what is the best place to cut this part of the arch off the car and also to make it easier on myself to reinstall the new piece.
can i use just the panel bonding adhesive for this entire repair, or am i better to use my flux in that door jam area?

any advice is very much appreciated. not quite ready to start this process just yet, but i want to get my game plan nailed down way before i'm ready to start this. thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:36 pm
Your photo links are bad.
When viewing your picture in photobucket click the IMG file and it should automatically copy it. Then just paste it in you text box.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:28 pm
i can see them? maybe photobucket was down temporarily. how you described is how i attached the photos

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:07 pm
The pictures are showing now.
That rust goes deeper than you think. I would try to find a replacement panels first and if that doesn't pan out look for a donor car wheel arch.
You will need to cut that rusted metal out and replace it in order to have a lasting repair.
I prefer to butt weld patch panels rather than overlap.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:24 pm
i have new panels from a donor car from outside of the rust belt. i'm just a little unsure of how to / where is best to cut out that arch area where it meets the rear door, and if i need to weld or if i can use the 3m 8115 for this repair. if i have to weld i will.

can i ask why your preference is to butt weld vs. overlap?



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:28 pm
you should be able to switch your welder to use solid wire,... check and see if your machine is capable of converting to use solid wire, if so get a bottle of argon/co2, a regulator , a spool of .023 wire, and the polarity needs to be dcep { reverse polarity }...and no there is no advantage of a butt weld over a lap joint providing they are both done correctly....if you have a local welding store nearby, they can help you out

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:50 pm
danteisme wrote:i have new panels from a donor car from outside of the rust belt. i'm just a little unsure of how to / where is best to cut out that arch area where it meets the rear door, and if i need to weld or if i can use the 3m 8115 for this repair. if i have to weld i will.

can i ask why your preference is to butt weld vs. overlap?


To me the overlap is just another pocket to invite rust. Yes it is true if they are done correctly its not a problem but if you are just starting out why take the chance? I use overlaps when using panel bond adhesive since it will be filled with adhesive and there won't be any air pockets.

Butt welds are not that hard to do and with a little practice you can make the welds invisible after grinding.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:27 pm
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:
danteisme wrote:i have new panels from a donor car from outside of the rust belt. i'm just a little unsure of how to / where is best to cut out that arch area where it meets the rear door, and if i need to weld or if i can use the 3m 8115 for this repair. if i have to weld i will.

can i ask why your preference is to butt weld vs. overlap?


To me the overlap is just another pocket to invite rust. Yes it is true if they are done correctly its not a problem but if you are just starting out why take the chance? I use overlaps when using panel bond adhesive since it will be filled with adhesive and there won't be any air pockets.

Butt welds are not that hard to do and with a little practice you can make the welds invisible after grinding.


that's true, i don't want to take the chance. i really would like to not have to to do this type of repair again. in your opinion, for this type of repair, would you say welding the panel itself in is the best option? i'm sure this wont turn out perfect, but where i tie this into the main body of the car i would like to make the transition as smooth as possible. i'm still leaning towards using the adhesive where the inner and outer panels meet on the lip of the arch to make sure i get a good seal there. i'm not sure how good it is to mix welding wit this adhesive stuff after it dries. i'd like to not start a fire.


i'll upload a few more pics of that lip/arch. here is where it ate completely through both the inner and outer panel.
Image



i may actually start cutting into the rust this weekend coming up if time allows. where would be the best place to cut this part of the wheel arch nearest the rear seat that would allow me to re-install the new one and hide the work the easiest? looking for the place that makes the most sense to start.

Image

Image


i'm sure my "perfect game plan" that i get all worked out prior to cutting anything will change a good bit once i tear away that outer panel and see how far the damage goes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:15 pm
I try to leave as much original metal as possible when restoring cars.
In this case I cut to within a 1 1/2" of the door jamb and up into the valley formed by the quarter panel.
Image


You will also notice I had to remove part of the wheel housing. Since they don't make reproduction panels for this car I had to find a donor quarter section.
Image


I wasn't overly concerned about the appearance of the weld on the wheel housing since it would never be seen.
Image


Here's the butt welded seam near the door jamb:
Image


The valley seam:
Image


Primed:
Image


Practice on some scrap pieces until you get your welder settings right and your technique down. Try to fit your patch panels as close as you can with minimal seam gaps.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:17 am
thank you for all of your advice. i'll get some thin gauge metal and practice and dial in the welder. once i really dive into this i'll make sure i post pics of my progress, or lack of progress depending how this goes haha
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