Metal warped after cutting out rusted panel

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:44 am
Gas welding is certainly the best way, but it does cause a lot of distortion. You have to be able to get to the back side to plannish as you go. How much experience do you have gas welding? and how much experience do you have with a hammer and dolly on the welds?



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:35 am
Gas Is the best way with Zero gap on thin sheet metal, BUT its not the easiest way and does require hi degree of skill and Practice! Lots and lots of Practice!
Its not something you can learn on the fly with your Pride and Joy!
Grab a old Hood or Fender that's junk practice on that!
If you do not know how to gas weld thin sheet metal expect 100- 200 hrs of just practicing the welding part!!!!!!!! Being good at hammering dents out about the same!!!!
I strongly suggest a Book called "The key to metal Bumping"

https://www.eastwood.com/key-to-metal-b ... xgEALw_wcB

If you cant hammer out simple dents your not gonna be any good at Hammer welding! Both are skills! required skills! to do good Hammer welding!!!!

I like My Torch set up Chevman once suggested to me.
I Have the Meco Torch its smaller than a Pack of cigarettes & weighs just 6 oz, I also have the Gas Economizer valve with Pilot light, allows me to Hang up the Torch and it shuts off the gas and Oxy to the Torch by hanging it up then when ready to weld again I just pick it up and the gas turns on and I light the Torch on the Pilot light all with one hand.
The whole set up makes Hammer welding so much easier because you need both hands free for welding and both hands free to hammer and dolly as quickly as possible.

https://www.tinmantech.com/products/wel ... -torch.php

https://www.tinmantech.com/products/wel ... mizers.php


Tig welding
If you use a Very tight fit Zero Gap with thin sheet metal you can Fusion weld the panels together, Just like Gas welding Gas welding and Tig welding are very similar.
You can also Keep you heat affected zone into the panel to a very min. because Tig allows you to pin point your heat. Tig Causes the least amount of heat distortion in the Panel.

I like Gas and Tig You can Mig thin sheet IF you have a Machine that will Dial down enough BUT the Bead is Rock hard! It can and will crack when Plannishing it if you over do it,
Mig also puts a Lot of heat into the panel causing distortion. Its fast and its easy to learn. But I can't say its really welding as You are not running an actual Bead your just Spot welding ZAP ZAP ZAP over and over repeatedly putting excessive heat into the panel.
I have seen guys blow air on the bead trying to cool the bead trying to control the heat distortion (Don't do this!) Just let it cool normally and deal with the distortion in the panel by Hammering it out.
When Mig welding thin sheet metal An actual weld bead never forms and flows together actually melting the metals together as one like Tig or Gas. Thicker materials are a different story.

Either of the three processes will work, Distortion is gonna happen with any of the three processes, Gas does cause the most distortion even with a extremely small torch like I have with its extremely small welding Tips, I have tips so small they wont put enough heat into a panel too cause a Bead puddle to form even on thin sheet metal, So Tip size selection is critical you want to get on the panel cause a Puddle to form quickly and run with it quickly and then get off and immediately start hammering the bead flat while the Bead is RED HOT!
The distortion caused by the heat is generally manageable and easily corrected when Hammering the Weld bead you also work the distortion at the same time as you go.
It takes some practice!!!! LOTS of practice and I wouldn't practice on my Pride and Joy either! you can cause a Lot of damage learning this skill!!!!!!

Hammering the weld Bead
You Have to be able to get to both sides of the Panel being welded Comfortably!!!!
If you cant get comfortable for the weld OR the Hammer and Dolly work FORGET IT!!!!!
Get comfortable go through each motion with out doing actual work and make sure your comfortable! Your gonna run about an inch inch and half then while its still red Hot Hammer it flat Being comfortable is a Must!
I like to use a Hi Crown Dolley and almost Flat Low crown Hammer after Hammering slide hammer face across the bead checking for flatness, At same time check and work distortion the heat has caused.
Good Leather Gloves are a Must But Not Heavy thick welding gloves you have to feel things as you go.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:19 am
You guys are absolutely right when it comes to the distortion of the gas welding. I absolutely understand and realize what you guys are talking about when it comes to practice practice practice with welding, gas welding and TIG welding. Everything that I have been practicing on for the past couple of years has been Fusion welding with mostly gas and within the last year started practicing with TIG Fusion welding. I've gone through 2 medium sized bottles of pure Argon gas already LOL. My welder is a harbor freight titanium 200 multi process welder and there is no pedal for the TIG welder yet, so I only have scratch start and you learn in a hurry that with full power right away you tend to burn through very easily! So until I can get a pedal for the TIG welder I am concentrating on gas Fusion welding. I have been honing my skill gas Fusion welding for over a year while I was laid up with ankle fusion surgery. Luckily I have a friend in the scrap metal business who cut me a ton of 18 and 20 gauge steel to practice with. You learn in a hurry not to rush the gas welding. Couple of years ago I ordered David Gardiner's DVD on metal shaping and I have watched that video over and over and over,Very informative DVD. I was doing like anybody else and trying to teach myself to gas weld and getting aggravated like anybody wood in the beginning and I just started imitating what he did by tacking the panel on and holding and bending the metal as I tacked and all of a sudden it started clicking. I would never practice on my pride and joy LOL even before I practice on a butt weld I run rows and rows of just practice beads to see how my penetration is and how much heat I have. I've been thinking about getting a small set up as you suggested with the automatic shut-off and on. I have all the tools how to get the correct fitment that I want now it's just a matter of practicing. I am going to get the car off of the temporary jig that I have it on and get it set on four Wheels. I need to put the rubber and trim in the front and rear glass, Jack lid with the weather stripping and also the doors to make sure I have this car straight before I start cutting any more metal out of it. The first 2 pictures is one of my first gas welding projects. Lots of different curves in these car panels and I didn't think I could make the concave curve that I needed so I will welded a curved piece of metal on. In the third picture I found out I could make that concave curve without having to weld it on LOL you live and learn. Thanks again gentlemen for your kind help and insight! Much appreciated!
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1964 Galaxie 500 fastback 428 FE
1964 Comet Caliente (red)
1964 Comet Pro Street project (under construction)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:36 am
I like My Torch set up Chevman once suggested to me.
I Have the Meco Torch its smaller than a Pack of cigarettes & weighs just 6 oz, I also have the Gas Economizer valve with Pilot light, allows me to Hang up the Torch and it shuts off the gas and Oxy to the Torch by hanging it up then when ready to weld again I just pick it up and the gas turns on and I light the Torch on the Pilot light all with one hand.
The whole set up makes Hammer welding so much easier because you need both hands free for welding and both hands free to hammer and dolly as quickly as possible.


When ordering the mini torch body, what tip sizes would you suggest buying ?? Thanks !!
Red
1964 Galaxie 500 fastback 428 FE
1964 Comet Caliente (red)
1964 Comet Pro Street project (under construction)



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:40 am
I ordered all the available Tips when I bought mine But I did not order the extension.
I have to go out and look what Tip is on it But I wanna say its a Double or quad zero I cant remember? I wasn't sure how there Number system would work so I bought multiple Tips of all sizes and played with all of them. You can be Too small thats for sure. I will be out there latter today and will look and update this soon.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:18 pm
Picked up a couple of neat tools today!
I didn't have to buy them, all I'll say is it's good to have a friend that's in the heating and cooling business and had these laying around in his way.
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15944949511545917626477478937097.jpg
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1964 Galaxie 500 fastback 428 FE
1964 Comet Caliente (red)
1964 Comet Pro Street project (under construction)



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:32 pm
NICE SCORE!!!!!!!
I am Very Jealous, I want a shear and a decent Box break so dam bad.

I think thats a Pan Break I want a Box break.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:16 pm
Finally got my mini torch set up and it works great. It's great not having to readjust the flame every time. I had to put a weight on the end of the gas saver because the torch is to small.
Attachments
20200813_153301.jpg
1964 Galaxie 500 fastback 428 FE
1964 Comet Caliente (red)
1964 Comet Pro Street project (under construction)



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:47 pm
I love mine I have a it set up on a Little table I roll around the car so I can set my Hammers and Dollys on. When Hammer welding its a dance back and forth between welding and Hammering the Bead and keeping the panel strait all at the same time.

Takes a bit of practice.

Cant wait to try it out with my leading kit.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:36 pm
20200804_144430.jpg
1964 Galaxie 500 fastback 428 FE
1964 Comet Caliente (red)
1964 Comet Pro Street project (under construction)
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