67 mustang project

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:03 pm
Happy holidays everybody


I have A 67 back that is in need of some rust repair. I hired somebody who tried to do it but obviously as its looks it seems he didn't do a very good job.

I think my best bet is to sand blast down to metal and then work from there as it has a ton of bondo.

The issue im running into is that I have no experience in rust repair and people who I have been asking want and extranomical amount of money to repair.
It's more than some people salaries.

It seems that when people hear and see what type of car it is they seem to Jack up the prices 5 times.


Does anybody have any recommendations For a person or a shop who could do the job in the California Arizona area?

From there going to attempt to paint the car myself
Unless I find somebody who's willing to do it at a reasonable price

Thanks for your time and happy holidays



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:53 am
gypsy_restorations wrote:H

It seems that when people hear and see what type of car it is they seem to Jack up the prices 5 times.


may seem that way but thats not how it goes.
it reads like you expect people that have taken many years to perfect their skills to be making walmart wages. if you want that,take your car to walmart.

they dont give the numbers because of the car. they give the numbers because of the amount of work involved.

this might all sound sarcastic but im just being straighforward. auto body work like you want is a skill that takes many years to learn and master plus requires thousands of $$$ in tools. they didnt learn by watching youtube videos. many started by pushing a broom in a shop and worked up from there. took many years to perfect their skills

im certain theres folks here that know people in that area but wont recommend them off of what you type. want cheap? find a trade school and let em work on it.
you can learn how to do the work yourself,too. theres countless books and videos and only takes a few thousand $$$ in tools.



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:01 am
ok- so i see you posted a few months ago asking about this car and free labor. i understand(not the free labor part)- i really do. you love the car, have a vision but dont know how to do it.
your best bet on a limited budget is to learn. youre still going to need a quite a few $$$$ in tooling. make this a hobby. work on it in spare time. buy the tools as needed.before even starting, studystudystudy. the folks here can probably recommend books and video channels on YT.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:36 am
I agree with the above posters.

Start by visiting the Info Center and reading articles for beginners so as to get an understanding of the tools, supplies and space needed.

Then go to the member's projects section and search for a project similar to the one you want to tackle and follow the steps involved.

What you will discover is restoration work is very time consuming and requires a variety of skill sets if you plan to do it yourself.

I am working on a '69 Chevy C10 for a friend of mine. I have nearly 70 hours in it so far and the only thing I have been doing is cutting out rusted metal and welding in patch panels on the cab.

When he dropped it off he brought me two rocker panels thinking that was all it needed. However once you start dismantling and removing rusted parts you always find the rust is much worse than it looked. He needed new floor supports, a floor pan, kick panel patches, lower A-pillar patches and outer floor patches installed BEFORE I could put his new rocker panels on.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:12 pm
I had never welded and bought a Miller 211 watched a bunch of videos and have a SIL that teaches metal working. After practicing for quit a few hours bought some sheet metal and started on my rusted project car. This was 3 years ago, I now really enjoy making sheet metal panels and other stuff. Made this shifter stand for my friends Jeep yesterday. A couple pictures of other projects.

The second picture is my 70 Cyclone, I removed the shock towers and installed a suspension kit. Also made the covers that hide the A-frames and some other pieces that cover the wiring.

A Mustang would be a dream car for me, you can buy any panel brand new. Sorry about the bragging but I think a lot of people could do it with some practice.
Attachments
Jeep shifter 2.jpg
Cyclone 34.jpg
Cyclone 33.jpg



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:12 pm
gypsy_restorations wrote:Happy holidays everybody


I have A 67 back that is in need of some rust repair. I hired somebody who tried to do it but obviously as its looks it seems he didn't do a very good job.

I think my best bet is to sand blast down to metal and then work from there as it has a ton of bondo.


A 67 Fast Back is a very sought after car and worth a pretty penny when done correctly even as a custom.
I would like to see some really good pics of it first especially of the rust in detail.

I will not go into too many details as why metal work is so expensive but most do not like doing the work and even fewer are good at it! Paint work is another story entirely and I will not do a complete Paint job for ANY customer as its too labor intensive for the average guy to afford me to do a paint job for them.

Back to metal work:
Not many China made repair panels fit correctly if at all and must be fitted to even get close to working. Often Hand making parts is the only option for unobtainable pieces.
To add to it consumable prices fluctuate monthly and are NOT cheap! Welding gas i.e. Steel mix ,Argon, Oxygen and acetylene, Cutting wheels, grinding disks,Sanding disks, Wire wheels, Drill bits, Hi speed files, Glass for Blasting and Chemicals such as Acids, Acetone, & Laq thinner are all needed for this type of work. And you go through the stuff like its candy!!

This is one of my wheel well lip repairs:
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Check out some of my repair work on this thread
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21429

Mustangs are notorious for Rusting out really bad, I mean really bad! the deeper you dig the worse it gets before it gets better. new metal can not be welded to rusted metal! so you have to keep cutting till you get to good clean metal.
Metal work often needs to be Blasted clean as well this is just another step in the process and again its not cheap.
I use Glass to blast with not Sand it costs more around $14 a 50 lb bag I don't recycle the stuff so it gets a little spendy. I use a lot of it!
Welding Gas is another consumable that the price fluctuates weekly as does welding wire and other consumables. I just bought a dozen cutting disks for my Die Grinders I paid $1.50 each, My Roll lock sanding disks I buy by the box of 50 I think I paid $40 a box, in 3 different grits! a dozen and a Half Drill bits cost me close to $150 just the other day.
Not junk Hi speed steel but Cobolt drill bits and NOT the Junk from Lows, Homedepot, Amazon or Ebay! but Real Cobolt Drill bits from an industrial supply, You cant do this stuff with Junk tools or Junk consumables!

I use Mig, Tig and Gas welding NOT just one process but 3 as different parts of the car and different parts require different repair methods.

Jim is in Arizona and I am in Pahrump NV. we both take on side jobs Occasionally.

I myself am currently very busy with a full time job plus I have 4 or 5 of my own running projects currently.
My job comes first, customer cars 2nd and my own stuff last one of the reasons my cars take so long.
I am in no way cheap! And Ya I make more Money for a living than Most do! I am not ashamed of it!!!! I get paid for what I know NOT what I do!
I do not Bid jobs or give estimates! But I do take on side projects occasionally, I work by the hour. I do a Pay as you go deal.
By individual projects on the car and or by Block time (Pay as you go 20-40 hr at a crack) (Once your money for time runs out I stop! whether its done or NOT! I do not give time away! I have my own problems!)
I have had project owners tell me no problem keep working and the time ticks by 6 months without catching up the bill then it sits for 1-2 years later and I end up owning another car half done that I don't need!

So I have conditions I have to like the project, you have to stay up to date with paying your bill up to date as work progresses you also have to buy parts & pay for consumables for the repairs in a timely manner.
I don't generally charge for storage as long as work progresses, If work stops you need to come get the car! I am not a charity, I don't work for free and I do not want another project car that just sits in front of my shop!
I am also not responsible for damage or theft. (Nothings been stolen yet!) I have had cars damaged by the wind out here so its best if its kept inside only way to do that is if its being worked on other wise its outdoors for it!
I am not open to taking on any more full restoration work at this time but metal work as a side job is a little different, I am in need of some extra cash for my own current projects so if your serious post up some pics of the car and send me a PM.

There are a couple of guys that visit this web sight occasionally that will do a 500 hr restoration for you but I am not one of them! 500 hrs into a car is NOTHING!
I would not want to estimate how many hours I have in my Firebird but its far north of 2000. The 41 Ford I did was 2500+ hrs. The 48 Lincoln Zepher was close to 3000.
Auto restoration Is not a cheap a hobby, Nor is having a car restored, If you cant do it yourself then you have to pay some one and you always get what you pay for.

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Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:33 am
Listen to what Dennis (Doright) says. I'm a super serious hobbyist, who does work on the side. Everything from restorations, to patch work, to frame offs, and full on, radical custom cars. Every word he said is true. No estimates, though I walk customers through the process, and why you can't 'guess' how much work it will take. Price is "time + materials". Keep a log, with labor done, parts bought, etc. When your deposit runs out, works tops. Talk to my past customers for references. If you don't trust me, don't bring the car! I can supply pictures all along the way, as well as the Excel sheets for costs. You can visit anytime, not trying to hide anything. You can pick up a sander, grinder, or broom, whatever labor YOU do, you don't have to pay me to do. As long as you are capable of doing the work right!
Like him, I don't look for work, it finds me. Not taking in any work now, booked for 2 years. There aren't many who do work right, and it isn't cheap. It, also, is NOT a great opportunity to make lots of money in. Unless you're on TV, and can charge 150$ per hour, just because you're famous!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:39 am
chopolds wrote:Listen to what Dennis (Doright) says. I'm a super serious hobbyist, who does work on the side. Everything from restorations, to patch work, to frame offs, and full on, radical custom cars. Every word he said is true. No estimates, though I walk customers through the process, and why you can't 'guess' how much work it will take. Price is "time + materials". Keep a log, with labor done, parts bought, etc. When your deposit runs out, works tops. Talk to my past customers for references. If you don't trust me, don't bring the car! I can supply pictures all along the way, as well as the Excel sheets for costs. You can visit anytime, not trying to hide anything. You can pick up a sander, grinder, or broom, whatever labor YOU do, you don't have to pay me to do. As long as you are capable of doing the work right!
Like him, I don't look for work, it finds me. Not taking in any work now, booked for 2 years. There aren't many who do work right, and it isn't cheap. It, also, is NOT a great opportunity to make lots of money in. Unless you're on TV, and can charge 150$ per hour, just because you're famous!


This is how I do it as well. I bill once a month for labor and materials. The owner can come get his car at anytime as long as he's paid up. Never had anyone take their car home before being finished.

In the projects section you will find these cars I have done and here are the hours of labor it took for a couple of them.
1990 Mazda Miata - 222 hours
1967 Jeep CJ5 - 348 hours
1965 Buick Special Convertible - 627 hours
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:48 am
The job you did on that Jeep in just 350 hrs was awesome!
The only thing that would have made that whole project better would have been full rebuilds on the differentials with lockers a Transfer case low gear kit and a full transmission & engine overhaul and a lift kit.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:16 pm
I agree with Chopolds
You cant leave out the time it takes to clean the shop and put tools away its all part of the job! A guy cant afford to give this time away on every job its part of the job. I give some of it away but dam its hard to swallow. I have a strong rule of cleaning the shop after each project completion.

Jim
The job you did on that Jeep in just 350 hrs was awesome!
The only thing that would have made that whole project better would have been a lift kit, full rebuilds on the differentials with lockers a Transfer case low gear kit and a full transmission & engine overhauls.
My restoration usually include things like full overhauls on all major assembly's part of the reason for the additional labor hours not to mention electrical work, interior work, Making interior seat covers, headliners and door panels takes time not all stuff is available for older cars.

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Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
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