Rusty

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:06 pm
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Hi new around here. Purchased a GM truck with rusty rear wheel wells. I have replacement panels. Looking for help on which way to go about. Flange tool vs cut and butt etc. thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:03 pm
Personally, I prefer the butt weld over the flange weld. The overlap of the flanged metal could possibly be a source of rust.

Now some like to use the flange with panel bond adhesive. This fills the gap between the panels so no rust can form.

There are others much more proficient at this than I am. Hopefully they will give their opinions soon.

Also, be sure to read the Sticky Post at the top of this Section.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:51 am
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Personally, I prefer the butt weld over the flange weld. The overlap of the flanged metal could possibly be a source of rust.

Now some like to use the flange with panel bond adhesive. This fills the gap between the panels so no rust can form.

There are others much more proficient at this than I am. Hopefully they will give their opinions soon.

Also, be sure to read the Sticky Post at the top of this Section.


Thank you,.Just learning about panel bond now,watched some videos etc.Looks like a good alternative to welding.

Ive welded patches before but much smaller.I guess with gluing them on focus is more on filler work rather than worrying about heat warp/correct alignment etc.

The panel now is quite floppy with the wheel arch missing,how would you go about using the flange tool and keep the panel in the right spot? Could make a hell of a mess if flanges warp it.

Thanks



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:48 pm
Holly crap! Just checked price of this panel adhesive. Wow. Any idea how far a 200ml cartridge goes. Doesn’t sound like enough to do one side.



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:52 am
I don't think panel adhesive is a good alternative. It is strong enough, but I can see other issues arising. Better off welding. It's a great skill, and you can do so much more than just welding patch panels with it. And Flange welding is OK for floors, trunk, inner structure, but for outer panels, butt welding is the only way to go.



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:54 am
I’ve patched butt welded small panels before. The grinding afterwards is what’s putting me off.
Recently saw a video using a similar tool as a flange that just bends the ends a little at a 45 for a lap weld. Could just use pliers I guess. I like the idea of making a little valley for the welds so one doesn’t have to grind off so much if any.

With the location of the repair and being in the snow salt zone wouldn’t a lap be a better choice? Creating a water proof weld on a butt joint seams almost impossible and will just rust again in no time.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:16 pm
A Panel Flanger thingy is a No go in my opinion, as It can damage the panel.

I would make a Fish plate repair rather than Flanging, Its the same same idea but you glue in your flange/step in.
This requires being able to get to back side of repair to glue on the fish plate first that creates your step. to glue your repair panel to.

When using Panel adhesives Your gluing metal together it has be surgically clean zero paint. rust. oil or grease. Sand metal clean with 36 grit. clean with Acetone or MEK before applying adhesive.

I personally like Panel adhesives my self zero warping and minimal filer required BUT when done can lead to Ghost lines due to the different materials involved and the thickness of the repair area. Ghost lines will show from shrinkage of materials used over time and when area is heated from sun light often showing the repair area Its not huge or obvious to most who will look at it. generally only noticed by Pro's that know what they are looking at Most people will never see or notice it.
When used correctly the repair is almost as strong as welding and Moisture proof in my opinion as seams are sealed by the adhesive.

Is 200ml enough? The pieces being glued together are smashed together squeezing out all excess adhesive so very little is really required.
The panel repair has to be done with Zero gap all parts have to fit together tightly and snug held to together with Clecos or screws. Out side skin that buts up together between to pieces has to be Beveled slightly and all cleco holes beveled / chamfered (slight bevel) . reason for beveling is give your filler a place to go and hold onto to hide repair..

Is Butt welding Better? YUP! Will I use Panel adhesives? absolutely!
Their is No "only one way to repair anything" Every repair is different,
Also Not every one has the tools and equipment and skill to do a But weld repair.
Adhesives are a Good alternative to welding for nonstructural repairs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxHActyy9Ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgYHtivN96c
Last edited by Doright on Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:22 am
Doright wrote:A Panel Flanger thingy is a No go in my opinion, as It can damage the panel.

I would make a Fish plate repair rather than Flanging, Its the same same idea but you glue in your flange/step in.
This requires being able to get to back side of repair to glue on the fish plate first that creates your step. to glue your repair panel to.

When using Panel adhesives Your gluing metal together it has be surgically clean zero paint. rust. oil or grease. Sand metal clean with 36 grit. clean with Acetone or MEK before applying adhesive.

I personally like Panel adhesives my self zero warping and minimal filer required BUT when done can lead to Ghost lines due to the different materials involved and the thickness of the repair area. Ghost lines will show from shrinkage of materials used over time and when area is heated from sun light often showing the repair area Its not huge or obvious to most who will look at it. generally only noticed by Pro's that know what they are looking at Most people will never see or notice it.
When used correctly the repair is almost as strong as welding and Moisture proof in my opinion as seams are sealed by the adhesive.

Is 200ml enough? The pieces being glued together are smashed together squeezing out all excess adhesive so very little is really required.
The panel repair has to be done with Zero gap all parts have to fit together tightly and snug held to together with Clecos or screws. Out side skin that buts up together between to pieces has to be Beveled slightly and all cleco holes beveled / chamfered (slight bevel) . reason for beveling is give your filler a place to go and hold onto to hide repair..

Is Butt welding Better? YUP! Will I use Panel adhesives? absolutely!
Their is No "only one way to repair anything" Every repair is different,
Also Not every one has the tools and equipment and skill to do a But weld repair.
Adhesives are a Good alternative to welding for nonstructural repairs.

Thanks,something to ponder.
I had to Google Fish plate repair,sounds like a good idea.Access to the back would be limited though in some areas.Wouldnt be able to guarantee that the area is 100% clean.Twice as much glue also.
Again thanks.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:29 am
No not twice as much adhesive, Your only gluing in 1 to 1 1/2 inch strips to Back side.
If you cannot get to back side Adhesives will not work you will not be able to use adhesives You also will not be able to weld it. Good welds need metal cleaned on both sides.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:26 pm
Doright wrote:No not twice as much adhesive, Your only gluing in 1 to 1 1/2 inch strips to Back side.
If you cannot get to back side Adhesives will not work you will not be able to use adhesives You also will not be able to weld it. Good welds need metal cleaned on both sides.


So a 1/2 to 3/4" bond area is enough? Would have thought it needs more.
I guess once I remove the original metal to be 3/4 short of the patch and cut away some of the inner I may just have enough room to get behind.Hmm.Im all for this fish plate idea,panels sitting flush rather then overlap.
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