First Cut and buff job. Need some advice.

Discuss anything after that final masking comes off.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:48 pm
Anyway, it's been interesting following this thread and your experiences.[/quote]


I'm sure "Interesting" is putting it lightly.
Just glad I did not share all the cuss words that went into this crazy decision that I jumped into by myself. Still learning as I go, but as a car guy with like (7) unrestored classic cars sitting on my property waiting to be brought back to life I can see these trial and error experiences and gained skills coming in handy in the future.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:54 pm
NFT5 wrote:
And welcome too, to the reality of high quality painting where the work before and the work after far surpasses the relatively small time behind the gun. If only more people understood this and that this is the reason why a good paint job does not come cheap.
.


bought myself a copper tekna some time ago. first job using it on came out pretty darn nice. there i was going through the grits color sanding when it hit me:
next to my compressor, the copper tekna was/is the most expensive bodyworking tool i purchased yet barely used compared to the other tools used for teardown and reassembly. i know my buffer was in my hands for more time that that gun.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:54 pm
I'm back haha.. after months of off and on sanding and taking down the orange peel on the entire car, not to mention fixing oh about 50 runs in the clear using putty as a guide, I find myself in the cut and buff process yet again and this time it's the roof. SCRATCHES everywhere.
Why is this so hard?

Is it the way I'm holding the sand paper? The wrong paper? I just keep adding new scratches. Start at 1000, 1500, 2000. Cleaned everything well constant water be sprayed. Tried 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500 and had scratches again. Trying to find that technique that works every time, but just can't. Not even sure how I got the door done, it's still not perfect but looked ok so I moved on. Sorry for beating a dead horse here.. :knockout:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:29 am
You need to work longer with each grit, to take out the scratches from the previous grit.
Chris

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:04 am
I quickly read through this thread again. Are you using a rotary buffer? If not get one and the M-100 will easily remove any scratches less than 1500 grit.

I see the videos with guys using DAs but my experience is the buffer gets the job done and DAs require sanding with multiple grits up to 5000.

I hate the sanding part, even using a DA for the 1500 and 2000 is loathsome but for me.

The rotary buffer, twisted wool pad and Meguiars M-100 make the process quicker and take less time than all that sanding.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:06 am
On horizontal surface, you have to be extra careful with keeping water flowing to wash off the sanding residue. It will scratch the paint, as will any dirt nibs you sand off and may get stuck in the paper.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:59 pm
WOW
I just read the whole thread B4 I am commenting.

First off for a Newb, Some one that's new to cut and buff and may have never Buffed a car before I suggest and Highly recommend NOT sanding with multiple steps!
I also highly recommend losing the DA to sand with! Sanding with a DA Can and will cause Swirls when the material removed sticks to the Sand paper!
Keep the process simple!
Sanding in multiple steps is ADVANCED stuff! wether done by hand or a DA! The only purpose for it is to get to a glass surface faster when polishing! It does not provide a shinier surface you are gonna appreciate!!!!
Unless You can SAND and Polish Lexan or plexy glass with out imperfections like that used on Race cars or Aircraft windows I highly suggest leaving it to the Pros! I am a Pro at Doing aircraft windows and Windshields. I know how to do it correctly and I do not recommend Clear coat be done in multiple steps! especially for an armature with limited experience!

The Process I use and Highly recommend:
Get some 3M Gold 1200 grit wet dry paper and a Bucket with some Soap in it cut paper to fit small Foam sanding pad throw them in the bucket let them sit 5-10 min b4 starting or longer whats the rush? 20-30 min is better. Yes Using 1200 will take longer to get imperfections out BUT Its FORGIVING! you only have One Grit to polish when done!
Take and work a 2'x2' area at a time take your time this is not a race and is going to take a long time to complete! Probably a week or More! for me on a complete car 2 weeks would be the norm lol Lots of breaks Lots of Beer! there is a reason most want $2000 for a Cut and Buff Its Labor intensive & it takes forever to get it right.

Sand in X pattern Keep panel wet with soapy water at ALL times! I use a rag dripping wet and lay it on the panel so it drizzels soapy water on my work as I sand, absolutely NO dry sanding keep the panel wet while sanding to remove all surface imperfections.
Check your surface by wiping with squeegee, surface should be dull with no scratches standing out and flat with no shiny spots from deeper orange peel craters once your that far move on.

After panel is fully sanded with JUST 1200 grit and is dull after squeegeeing and no scratches are evident with no Orange peel craters or Guide coat if used the surface is ready to polish. DO NOT SAND WITH ANYTHING MORE OR FINER! Stop! Its time to Buff!

First with Twisted wool and a Hi quality Compound designed to remove 1200 grit sanding there are many on the market. Why Sand any finer when there are Compounds designed to remove 1200 grit scratch????? Their isnt any!!!!!!
I myself depend on Mernzerna products.
There are no fillers or Silicone in there products to hide imperfections.

Polish a single area 2x2 Washing your Buffing Pad OFTEN!!!!! In Soapy water every 10 min or so is not too much! Spin dry pad with the buffer. I don't use a Spur on my pads I wash them! Wash them often! Velcro pads are great!
The Pad and compound is removing Clear coat or single stage paint as you polish, as it does this it forms Balls that stick to the pad. Whether its a Wool pad or a foam pad these balls sticking to the pad cause swirls! a Sanding DA will do the same thing!

Its extremely important to keep your cutting pads clean by washing them out often during the process! Check surface with Micro fiber towel while cleaning Pads.
It's also a Good time to remove excess compound splatter that may have been thrown off pad. Keep up with this as it can be a Bear to remove latter after its dried on, 3M makes a Spray that makes removing splatter easier.

I cut Sand by hand one time and one time ONLY! with 1200 Grit ONLY, Then I do an initial Polish with a Twisted wool pad and a Rotary buffer then Move on to a White 3M Foam pad and hit it lightly with same compound again washing pad out OFTEN!!!!! Then I hit it with a super soft Black or Blue foam pad with a finishing cream again washing the pad OFTEN!!!!

I also Like a DA Polisher attachment on my Buffers especially AFTER the initial Buff with Twisted wool these are Perfect for the first timers as they really are forgiving!!!! Its hard to Burn through with one and they really don't produce swirls as easily like A Rotary will, Burn through and swirls are almost eliminated by using a DA attachment.

https://www.jbtools.com/dynabrade-produ ... -AQAvD_BwE

I cant find my Pics of the GTO polish job but this one was done as I ex plane.
This was done years ago but I have done many many more as I explain.

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Again I recommend CUT once! 1200 ONLY! Then Buff the **** out of it with a Rotary and a DA attachment. The DA will slow your progress down as it is slower! But Its FORGIVING at the same time!

A Rotary will burn through in a Heart beat and will cause Swirls if ANYTHING starts sticking to your pad.

Sanding with Paper that isn't totally soaked in water and soft can and will scratch.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:44 pm
Hey thanks guys, I'm going to give it another shot.
I do have a nice Dewalt DWP849X rotary that I have been using. I also have a 5" DA with 800, 1000, 1500, 2000 pads but i only used that once on the door and it did leave swirls that I had to take out by hand so I have been avoiding the DA. I don't have a DA attachment buffer, would that be used for tight areas?

I have a really hard time with this white paint seeing scratches after sanding, even when it's all dull it looks even and i don't see any scratches, I use a squeegee and it looks nice and even and dull, I then use the buffer and then all the scratches appear that I could not see. The white paint hides alot. I feel like if I had a dark color paint I would see the scratches a million times better. One hell of a color to do my first cut and buff on.

I will try the 1200 grit only and then buff. I have the M100 compound and also some good 3M compound and 3M polish.


I have a Dewalt twisted wool pad and also a white 3M foam pad, and (2) black 3M polishing pads.

Is it ok to polish with compound when the panels are still wet from wet sanding? I seen guys on youtube just go right at it with out drying the wet panels. I guess what I'm saying is if it's ok to have some water mixed with your compound especially since I will be washing the pads alot now with soap and water.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:26 pm
You want all the sanded material washed away and clean panel to start compounding.
The compound removes enough material causing nibs in your pads you don't need more from sanding dust to be picked by your buffing.

At this point you have sanded and buffed so much you may be better off Sanding and doing a Flow coat and calling it good?

I havn't seen ANY people on You tube I would actually listen too!
The Guys here Are Pros at this stuff listen to them! STOP watching you tube videos! the few I have bothered to watch don't know much more about it than you do!!!

My way is for the Novice OR for a daily driver, It works for me, its simple, It looks great! Don't think into it more than what I described. As you learn more and become more experienced you can do more.
I have 2 Dynabride DA attachments in my shop for people that want to help me polish for a reason! I can turn a Kid loose with one that doesn't know **** on fresh Paint and I don't have to worry about them screwing up and burning through!

I strongly suggest REREADING what I bothered to post above and really think about what I said.
Do your own research about Pads and compounds read what they do and what stage they are for in the Polishing process.
Polishing is a SKILL that is learned by doing! Different pads cut more than others as do Compounds. Do your own research learn when to use each when.
When I learned this stuff there was no internet! and I had no one to ask how to do it!
I learned it the hard way by trial and error teaching myself.
I used to really enjoy doing it anymore I cant stand doing it and like to teach others Hands on on how to do it.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:09 pm
Thanks for the advice, I really got crazy with this idea of doing everything my self for the first time especially for a car that I will be taking to car shows this summer. I should have learned on some crappy car first but it is what it is. The car I'm doing is a early Series 1 Datsun 240z, Some of these cars just like it are bringing in upwards of six figures right now.. Im not doing it for the money as I love this car but at the same time I want it to look amazing even if it takes me 20x longer than the average pro as I figure I'm learning as I go and it's worth the extra time.

I have already had to repaint and reclear the door in the beginning and put a good 30 hours in that SOB for learning purposes. Had a filter plug on my gun on the last coat of clear giving me like 50 runs that I had to fix haha. But yeah I'm going to keep working it till I get it right. It's really starting to look good. I'm definitely listening to all this advice from the pros on here. Thanks again.
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