Rusted from the inside out - Subaru

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:44 pm
I have a 99 subaru impreza that has seen its fair share of east coast winters. I need some help with tackling the rust. I have already begun cutting out the rust. I don't want to go overboard, but I definitely don't want to do too little and have rust issues later on.

Most of the rust that I am repairing is non-structural and on non-exterior body panels. I do plan on welding in the new sheet metal.

Before I get too nuts and post pictures, Is this the right subforum to post in?

Big thanks!



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:32 am
Projects section or here is good for metal work

Let the Pics fly

What kind of welding do you plan on doing? Gas Mig or Tig?
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:46 am
Doright wrote:Projects section or here is good for metal work

Let the Pics fly

What kind of welding do you plan on doing? Gas Mig or Tig?


Cool. I am at work now, so can't take the time to upload pictures.

My friend tig welds professionally on a daily basis. I will most likely get him to do the welding after I make the metal pieces that need to be welded in place. Another friend has a eastwood tig welder that I can borrow when I am ready.

I will post pictures as soon as I can.

I'm actually shifting gears a bit.
I've decided to drop the cash on a body kit that replaces all of the rear fender and all of the rocker panels. Therefor, I need to remove my rear fenders and also remove the rocker panels.

I'm going to remove the rear and side glass... I might start a new post on here about that.

Once I have the glass, rockers, and fenders off, I can focus on repairing the rusted sections of frame, wheel well, and trunk belly pan. I'll have better access to repairing those sections too.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:39 pm
By "rear fenders" I'm assuming you mean quarter panels.

You're going to remove the existing quarters and replace them? As well as the sills?

Most Imprezas have a plastic sill cover, so I hope that it's only that that you intend to remove. The steel part underneath is structural.

This could be epic.
Chris



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:50 am
Here was the car, more or less when I started:
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Here it is now:
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And here's what I'd like it to look like when I'm done:
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I have a tremendous amount of work to do. Today I'm actually heading to my friends to pick up a small lincoln flux core mig welder and to get a bit of a show and tell. For all the holes that exist, I need to make a patch and weld it into place. So my plan is to cut and bend sheet metal patches to fit the dozens of places that I need it. My strategy is to tack the patches into place with the flux core mig, and then have a buddy come over and finish it with a tig.

Aside from learning how to weld, I need to learn how to make the patches, hold them in place, tack them, and when finally tig welded to perfection, I need to learn what paint or sealants to use to protect it from future exposure to moisture.

I hope to find the time to post up specific problem areas where I am scratching my head and wondering how I'm going to fix it.

While I don't plan on driving it in the winter when the roads are covered in salt, I don't want to just leave certain really bad areas as they are, rusted through, and simply paint it over with rustolium. I want to cut and remove the largest cancer and replace it with good metal. I think this is a good idea and it makes me feel good about the car and my work.

Should I keep posting in this thread or start a new one in a different sub-forum?



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm
This one is Fine its still a welding Project, and a Cool Project none the less.
Don't use the Flux core! Use a Good Gas Mig that will weld THIN sheet metal Which is my Last choice and one which will weld thin sheet metal is gonna cost you a few bucks.

European sheet metal does not weld good under the best circumstances and or conditions and can be difficult even for an experienced welder.
Honestly I would use a Oxy Acetylene Gas welder or Tig would be my choice.

You can Pick up a small used Oxy Acetylene set up cheap just make sure to get a Very small Torch A small Victor or a Meco. Take the time and learn how to Gas weld first.
It will take a while to truly learn how but its worth it.

I learned on thin sheet metal with a Small victor torch I have this unit here many many years later its very small very light very cool torch.
This is a killer deal for for this torch.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-MECO-MID ... :rk:4:pf:0

I also use one of these with My Meco its very Very Cool tool accessory

https://www.ebay.com/itm/National-Torch ... rk:40:pf:0
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:11 pm
Few Beginner videos demoing Gas welding thin sheet metal.
If you can take the time too learn this You'll have no problem learning Tig welding later down the road. Yes there is some distortion from the heat But there again That's what a hammer and Dolley are for.
Plannishing and dressing Gas weld bead is much easier than Tig weld bead and a 1000 times easier than Mig weld bead. :pcorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DpXaoK7GQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXDKuMtj_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5bKXJ3kEM&t=5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmkx7CKhvxw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HVJHsOGa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYmBV6l_f8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Bz_6CXCLI
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:02 am
Good stuff Dennis, but let me add one more video with a different approach. Notice the flame is not as hot, and the HAZ (heat affected zone) is not as large, but he still gets good penetration with a small bead. He is using a small smith torch.
https://youtu.be/BYPSyfXdVsE



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:07 pm
I like it! Good one! He is Spot on 100% correct and he says it in the end of the video.
Getting the Flame right is the Key to a Good weld, Its something you learn with time doing it. I really like that Torch too! Nice! Small Light and look at that heat effected zone very small. Very much on the same level with a Tig. Yes a Tig can Pin point the heat further but the Trade off is a Harder weld bead.
Like it or Not the weld bead must be contended with in any of the Processes as all weld Beads Tacks shrink and Pull and must be stretched by plannishing It can be hard and time consuming or it can be Soft and easy. Personally I like the Soft and easy of the Gas weld bead Notice in all the videos Most are only Tapping on the Bead There not having to pound on it.

When I purchased my Meco I also purchased multiple Tips of all available sizes for it just so I had them in my kit for it.
I have played around with a Bunch of the really small ones Just too see what I could do with them Some are just way to small for welding thin Auto panel stuff believe it or not! some of the really small ones take too long to Get a Good weld pool going and couple wont even develop a weld pool as the auto panel metal is too thick for the Tip to even get a Pool going and you end up putting too much heat into panel so there is such a thing as too small of a welding tip from Meco.
As Far as Gas Torches go it really is a Scalpel.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:27 pm
Doright and Chevman,

Thanks so much for this!

3 weekends ago I picked up the flux core mig welder and finally last weekend I started playing around with some scrap 22 gauge sheet metal. The welds are very sloppy, but I did start to get the hang of it.

Before reading this, I reached out to the guy that fabricates the body kit that that was used to turn that STi Type R in the picture above into a replica S5 rally car (minus the roof snorkel). I wanted to see which welder he suggested. He has a nice write up on his own personal car project and he has welded in a pre-fabricated roll cage. He did a very nice job of creating support brackets. These support brackets attach the cage to the car and are clearly a heavier gauge sheet metal.

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I would love to do something similar in my car. I'm planning on installing a cage. I haven't found one yet, but if it's firmly mounted to the car like this, that would be amazing. And if I'm going to buy a welder, I might as well get my moneys worth out of it.

So he said he has something like this mig: https://www.sipuk.co.uk/sip-05718-autop ... elder.html

He said the welds are 50x better than what you can get from a flux core (which is a big relief). But stressed that I should find one with a highly adjustable power control since, in his words, subaru sheet metal is junk. :lol:

But you guys are suggesting I go with an Oxy/Acetlyne torch and stick weld. To be perfectly honest, I had no idea you could weld stuff this nicely with stick welding.

Would I still need to get my hands on a high power (relative to the light duty Oxy Acetlyne torch) to weld that thicker sheet metal to the chassis?

One important note... The kit the fabricator makes is carbon fiber and gets bonded to the car's metal work. It completely covers up all of the welding and stitching I need to do. So as pretty as those welds look with the Oxy/Acetlyne welder, you won't see them.

Are there metal working tools you reccomend I get for either making the patches or the cage brackets? A small metal break. Clecos for holding the patches in place for welding. A metal shear. Shrinker stretcher. I currently have a vice and some tin snips :lol: Since all the patches I am cutting out are small and hidden, I don't think I'll need anything too elaborate.

Thanks again!
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