So I'm just making preparations for top coat and figure I'm gonna need a better gun than I've been using for my primers, which is the purple hvlp from harbor freight.

Anyway, I was considering the new Black Widow from HF, but dad's got this old Sata which is 30+ years old.

Anyone have any thoughts on it? I know it's got the pedigree, but there's a lot of water under the bridge since it was new.




Thanks

It's not comparable to the latest generation of good guns, but, assuming it's been looked after, it's still a good gun. You don't mention the actual specs but I'd assume that it's set up as a top coat gun.

See if you can get a kit for it (new seals, gaskets etc.), clean and put the kit in and see how it goes.

Understood, but in what ways are the new guns better? I'm very inexperienced with nice spray guns.

I'm gonna try it out later on, but just shooting some proper for now, but it'll give me a look at the spray pattern.

Here's the business end.
1.3mm


And the other HF gun I've been shooting primers with, for reference...



And the new black widow I'm considering

The newer guns have 4 big air holes for the fan adjustment, I think, where the old sata just has 2. But the sata has a lot more of the smaller holes.

Sata vs BW


One concern I have is tip size. The black widow hvlp(pictured) has a 1.7, and nothing else in the box. They also offer a HTE version of the black widow with a 1.3 tip. I'm thinking that's the one I want.

Should I be concerned about that tip size? I don't know what top/ clear I'm gonna use yet.

My cheap primer gun has 1.3 and 1.8, so I'm probably covered there. My epoxy specs 1.3-1.6 and my 2050 high build says 1.4-1.8

We're painting a 1984 toyota landcruiser, so not very metallic, if at all. Still not sure if we're going 1 part(probably original) or base/cleat. Probably mire durable.


Thanks

acro wrote:Understood, but in what ways are the new guns better?

Not in any particular order...
More efficient - less wastage through overspray and more paint transferred to the item being painted
Lighter - easier to use when being used all day, every day, by professionals
More accurate engineering - better tooling means more accrate air and fluid control
Improved metallurgy - lighter and stronger components that last longer
Improved design fits the hand better, with better balance
Improved component quality - such as seals and valves - lasts longer, works better
Improved design - e.g. the new notched fluid tips in Iwata guns
Better spray patterns - squarer spray patterns give more even coverage
Better atomisation - finer, more even coverage
Better value - especially at the "economy end", most of the big manufacturers now have high quality entry/novice level guns that are the equivalent of their top of the range offerings of maybe two generations prior. Some have models in the sub $200 price range while others have premium quality, without some of the frills, in the $300 range.....so half to less than half the cost of their top models with almost comparable performance.

....and that's just for starters.

acro wrote:The newer guns have 4 big air holes for the fan adjustment, I think, where the old sata just has 2. But the sata has a lot more of the smaller holes.

Ignore the number of holes. That's just a different approach to controlling the spray pattern, although more modern guns do tend to have less holes, but more accurately placed and drilled.

The size of the holes on the inside of the air cap horns give an indication of the technology being used. Bigger holes generally means HVLP, smaller holes means high pressure. And then there are a myriad in the middle, most of which are HVMP ( a term rarely used and usually referred to as "compliant" or "RP" or "HTE" etc. But, don't compare air caps from different manufacturers since they all have a slightly different approach to achieving the same result.

acro wrote:Should I be concerned about that tip size? I don't know what top/ clear I'm gonna use yet.

Yes, to the extent that you'll need a bigger fluid tip (around 1.8mm) to be able to spray very high solid paints like primers while a tip of around 1.3mm is generally considered right for most base coats and 2K clears. 1.4mm seems to be the sweet spot for 2K Direct Gloss.

acro wrote:Still not sure if we're going 1 part(probably original) or base/cleat.

Get your terminology straight. ! part or 1 component or 1K is a paint that is just sprayed on, with no overlaid clear. There are 1K metallics but they were never very successful nor durable. Most 1K paints are solid colours.

acro wrote: so not very metallic,

Metallics (and pearls) either are or they're not. there is no such thing as "not very metallic".

acro wrote:Probably mire durable.

Rubbish. Why do you think that Toyota (just to name one), use 2K Direct Gloss on all their commercial vehicles. They know that that paint isn't going to be babied and loveingly cared for, yet all the big fleet owners want their vehicles to look good, not shabby, for a long time.

NFT5 wrote:

acro wrote:Understood, but in what ways are the new guns better?

Not in any particular order...
More efficient - less wastage through overspray and more paint transferred to the item being painted
Lighter - easier to use when being used all day, every day, by professionals
More accurate engineering - better tooling means more accrate air and fluid control
Improved metallurgy - lighter and stronger components that last longer
Improved design fits the hand better, with better balance
Improved component quality - such as seals and valves - lasts longer, works better
Improved design - e.g. the new notched fluid tips in Iwata guns
Better spray patterns - squarer spray patterns give more even coverage
Better atomisation - finer, more even coverage
Better value - especially at the "economy end", most of the big manufacturers now have high quality entry/novice level guns that are the equivalent of their top of the range offerings of maybe two generations prior. Some have models in the sub $200 price range while others have premium quality, without some of the frills, in the $300 range.....so half to less than half the cost of their top models with almost comparable performance.

....and that's just for starters.

acro wrote:The newer guns have 4 big air holes for the fan adjustment, I think, where the old sata just has 2. But the sata has a lot more of the smaller holes.

Ignore the number of holes. That's just a different approach to controlling the spray pattern, although more modern guns do tend to have less holes, but more accurately placed and drilled.

The size of the holes on the inside of the air cap horns give an indication of the technology being used. Bigger holes generally means HVLP, smaller holes means high pressure. And then there are a myriad in the middle, most of which are HVMP ( a term rarely used and usually referred to as "compliant" or "RP" or "HTE" etc. But, don't compare air caps from different manufacturers since they all have a slightly different approach to achieving the same result.

acro wrote:Should I be concerned about that tip size? I don't know what top/ clear I'm gonna use yet.

Yes, to the extent that you'll need a bigger fluid tip (around 1.8mm) to be able to spray very high solid paints like primers while a tip of around 1.3mm is generally considered right for most base coats and 2K clears. 1.4mm seems to be the sweet spot for 2K Direct Gloss.

acro wrote:Still not sure if we're going 1 part(probably original) or base/cleat.

Get your terminology straight. ! part or 1 component or 1K is a paint that is just sprayed on, with no overlaid clear. There are 1K metallics but they were never very successful nor durable. Most 1K paints are solid colours.

acro wrote: so not very metallic,

Metallics (and pearls) either are or they're not. there is no such thing as "not very metallic".

acro wrote:Probably mire durable.

Rubbish. Why do you think that Toyota (just to name one), use 2K Direct Gloss on all their commercial vehicles. They know that that paint isn't going to be babied and loveingly cared for, yet all the big fleet owners want their vehicles to look good, not shabby, for a long time.

Nice. Thanks

Loose the regulator AND filters at base of Gun.

Use Hi flow air hose Quick disconnects. Eliminate all flow restrictions to your gun.
Only use one Air pressure Regulator.
Ensure your Air compressor can supply all needed CFM requirements of the gun.

Black widow requires 11.8 CFM
Purple gun 12 CFM
I would bet money that those numbers are conservative at best.
You need a air compressor capable of making 12 CFM at operating pressure of 90 PSI min.
If you have a compressor that can do that and a well designed air system with no restrictions you should be able to paint anything with those guns with decent results.

AIR FLO is everything (CFM) NOT PSI

I would use that Old Paint gun of your fathers in a Heart beat